The Weekly Poll
Results
The "Shady in Red' Edition...
Publisher Harper Collins said Friday that Sarah Palin's memoir sold 300,000 copies its first day, among the best openings ever for a nonfiction book. Its print run already has been increased from 1.5 million copies to 2.5 million... In 2004, Bill Clinton's "My Life" debuted with sales of 400,000 copies. The year before, Hillary Rodham Clinton's "Living History" started at 200,000... The Wingnuts are going bonkers!
Do you consider Sarah Palin a legitimate political threat or merely a ditzy cultural doofus and a rabble-rousing, egotistical, power-broker wannabe?
Baron Dave tersely replied to this week's poll and added to last week's...
Well, yes.
And just to catch up a little:
Do you support or oppose the Administration's decision to try the accused terrorism perpetrators in New York City?
Anything that pisses off both Al Queda and the sphincter conservatives has got to be a good thing.
DRD was next with...
I, as well as many others I'm sure, are of the mind-set that Sarah is the possessor of all of the personality traits you listed in the original question! Let those doubting her forceful drive to make a name for herself {as well as a great fortune monetarily} do so at their own peril! Sarah is the personification of most citizens finding comfort from the 'family value section' of the political right! This playbook demonstrated itself this summer in their reaction at the so called 'town-hall-meetings' being held to explain ideas for healthcare reform for the nation. Like Sarah, they also were interested in killing any meaningful reform of the vastly broken-beyond-repair current healthcare delivery system. She found, as did the others following her lead, that the money was in the opposition to healthcare reform, not in supporting it! Since 99% of campaign funds for right wing candidates are generated at the corporate level, if they want to be funded they have to lock-step to the pied piper backed by the corporate messenger. Notice the votes on healthcare reform recently in both houses of congress! A yes vote by any GOP politician would mean the possibility of finding yourself without funds while facing a well funded opponent willing to do the bidding of business! Money is the life-blood for the success of any politician and corporate America has worked that angle for many years to unbelievable successfulness in promoting their best interests! Yes, I am of the opinion that Sarah is a person with all the traits mentioned in the present question. Thanks for another good question!
bebo said...
since we live in a country where GWB was elected twice & men buy pills to make their 'johnson' bigger, who knows.
(Don't forget about all those breast enlargement implants, too! Ya gotta be fair, after all. I'd bet that Carrie Prejean is a Sarah fan...)
Larry R. goes with..
I'd consider her a psychopathic political threat, especially considering her known connections with anti-Semitic religious Zealots and True Believers (and Alaska Separatists, too)
Richard McD...
Your question says it all. She also caters to dumb white people who are as bigoted as she is.
(and just as uninformed about the issues. I've seen videos of people at her book signing that were totally flustered when asked what Sarah stood for and why they liked her. They just did and that's good enough!)
Chipshot with an interesting point wrote...
I do most certainly consider Sarah Palin to be a very legitimate political threat ... to the Repugnican Party of course. (Haha! Confusion to the enemy, I always toast!)
I reason that this is because she most certainly is merely a ditzy cultural doofus and a rabble-rousing, egotistical, power-broker wannabe!
May she continue to be a regular fixture in the news, displaying her ignorance and providing material for the late night comics and Tina Fey! (Hear! Hear!)
Adam in NoHo says...
Both. The public likes someone who will just take a stand, no matter how blinkered or vague.
The question is what the GOP politburo will do if she actually gets into the 2012 Primaries- Let her go and ride any coattails to ultimately lose the election, or reign her in anytime before that?
DanD is at his cynical best with...
During 1999, whoda' thought that G.W. Bush would -- beyond all our most masochistically latent and sexually perverted nightmares -- actually be pResident? And now that we know beyond all doubt that he wasn't elected, but was merely selected, who's to say that "they" still also couldn't do it again with Caribou Barbie?
What, you think the Democrats are going to rebel ... get violent? Shit ... the age of LBJ is LONG GONE! Even the ole' Bartster would do nothing more than rant and rage, and maybe waggle his "Baby" in front of a mirror a little bit.
Without any doubt, Amerikkka has in fact become nothing more than a chicken-shit nation of castrated whiners.
And yes, I even include myself. Emasculating an entire population has pretty-much-well become an exact science. If any revolution does finally come, it will only be too little, too late.
And you see, one of the main reasons for this has become the very thing we thought would be our technological savior ... the Internet. EVERYBODY'S become a cyber-warrior. The overwhelming problem with this is that cyberwar is all intangible. No virtual march on Washington D.C. ever really happened, even though we congratulate ourselves for the event.
Sorry Bob, do I sound disenchanted? Well, it's only an intangible disappointment.
Heydee calls Sarah...
the "REDNECK QUEEN". The people who consider her to be legitimate political figure have a copy of "The Passion of the Christ" in their DVD collection and have more in common with this guy
than anyone else. One thing for sure is that their attention span matches one of a fruit fly.
Tom R. writes a script...
Palin is someone who had a taste of fame, who can't let go. There's been lots of people like her in public life before, mostly in show business. And in fact, Palin's life looks like one of the cliched movie biographies they used to turn out in Hollywood. This is how such a movie would be made of Palin's life:
1) Palin is just a poor, downtrodden person who gets no respect, but who has determination and a hard-working attitude. She meets her Great Love, a person who is intrigued by her attitude and her cuteness.
2) Palin starts becoming successful. She gets noticed and starts on the road to celebrity. Her Great Love cheers her on.
3) Palin achieves the peak of fame. The world cheers her. The Great Love is gratified, but secretly worried that something might go wrong...
4) A problem comes up. It might be an accident that happens, but more often it's Palin's ego and contempt getting the better of her. The public turns against Palin. Palin starts getting angry and desperate, demanding respect that she deserved. She even snaps at her Great Love.
5) Palin hits the skids. In some films, Palin would become a skid-row bum. In others, she would be mocked as a "has-been" trading on her former fame, doing the equivalent of playing drums for cheap strip shows. (I'm thinking "The Gene Krupa Story" in this context.)
6) The Great Love returns to Palin and reminds her that it's the qualities she used to have that are important, that made the Great Love fall in love with her. She was blinded by fame and fortune.
7) Palin returns to the values that made her great, with the complete understanding of her Great Love.
8) Palin returns to fame. But it's a more secure fame now, since it's based on the qualities her Great Love found in her.
You'll note I keep the gender of "her Great Love" deliberately vague. In classic movies it's always been a heterosexual affair. It doesn't have to be, of course...in the case of these biographies or of the real Palin.
In real life, of course, the scrabbling for fame after the peak is more pathetic. Generally, you see these people at the Hollywood Autograph Show, signing photos and wincing as fans remember "how great you used to be." I met one of the child actors from the original "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" selling his autographed "golden tickets." That was the only thing he ever did in acting and is still trading off it.
As I said, there's a big "BUT." In the case of Palin, the Republican party needs someone to run, and someone to inspire them. Their current crop of Rich Old White Men is pretty uninspiring and are constantly feuding with each other. Palin is the only one of the bunch who the public recognizes and who can attract willing (that is, unpaid-for) crowds.
I think it's possible that Palin may get the 2012 nomination. If she does, her many flaws - her continual quitting when she doesn't get complete admiration, her hypocritical political and social stances - will make it easy to attack her. While the Republican faithful want to destroy That Evil Darkie That Took Away Our White House, they won't get behind a woman who doesn't want to keep working at her job, even if that job is only to shill that lousy ghost-written book of hers, let alone the post to which she was elected.
(Wow... What an epic... Do ya think Tina Fey would take the part?)
Charlie Y opines...
The poll question would seem to presume that being a legitimate political threat and being a "ditzy cultural doofus" (and so on) are mutually exclusive, though Ronald Reagan proved a while back that this is not the case.
In response to early October's "The Most Dangerous Person in the USA" poll question, I did nominate Palin, but then I stated:
I don't take seriously Palin's viability as a presidential candidate in 2012 (yet, but I've been wrong before), and I think it would take a PR campaign over and above the one that sold (and continues to sell) Reagan, to put her in the White House.
But as I say here, the ditziness and such may not matter so much, the following is from Chomsky's Deterring Democracy (pages 73-74 of the hardcover Verso 1st edition, 1991):
With regard to the political system, the Reagan era represents a significant advance in capitalist democracy. For eight years, the U.S. government functioned virtually without a chief executive. That is an important fact. It is quite unfair to assign to Ronald Reagan, the person, much responsibility for the policies enacted in his name. Despite the efforts of the educated classes to invest the proceedings with the required dignity, it was hardly a secret that Reagan had only the vaguest conception of the policies of his administration, and if not properly programmed by his staff, regularly produced statements that would have been an embarrassment, were anyone to have taken them seriously. The question that dominated the Iran-contra hearings -- did Reagan know, or remember, what the policy of his administration had been? -- was hardly a serious one. The pretense to the contrary was simply part of the cover-up operation; and the lack of public interest over revelations that Reagan was engaged in illegal aid to the contras during a period when, he later informed Congress, he knew nothing about it, betrays a certain realism.
Reagan's duty was to smile, to read from the teleprompter in a pleasant voice, tell a few jokes, and keep the audience properly bemused. His only qualification for the presidency was that he knew how to read the lines written for him by the rich folk, who pay well for the service. Reagan had been doing that for years.
He seemed to perform to the satisfaction of the paymasters, and to enjoy the experience. By all accounts, he spent many pleasant days enjoying the pomp and trappings of power and should have a fine time in the retirement quarters that his grateful benefactors have prepared for him. It is not really his business if the bosses left mounds of mutilated corpses in death squad dumping grounds in El Salvador or hundreds of thousands of homeless in the streets. One does not blame an actor for the content of the words that come from his mouth. When we speak of the policies of the Reagan administration, then, we are not referring to the figure set up to front for them by an administration whose major strength was in public relations. The construction of a symbolic figure by the PR industry is a contribution to solving one of the critical problems that must be faced in any society that combines concentrated power with formal mechanisms that in theory allow the general public to take part in running their own affairs, thus posing a threat to privilege.
This pattern certainly continued under Bush II. That is, in the current state of US politics the president can function as a figurehead while real power lies elsewhere. Those who disparage the differences between the Republicans and Democrats have some points, especially given the dominance of the military on foreign policy regardless of who is nominally in charge, but I find it interesting to note that the last three Democratic presidents -- Carter, Clinton, and Obama -- are extremely brilliant men, whereas Reagan and Bush II at least, definitely rate the doofus label.
I will suggest when all is said and done that Palin is a threat because the PR people have proven themselves capable of selling such people, but that even if she's elected, she won't be running the show. The real threat would come from her VP and other appointees, given what Bob's nominee as "most dangerous" (Cheney) accomplished during his tenure.
The latest Rasmussen poll shows Obama tied with Romney and only 3 points ahead of Palin, but 2012 is far enough away that that needn't be taken too seriously. We should be more concerned about the 2010 midterm elections for now, and if the economy doesn't improve by then, a lot of people who should know better by now are likely to swallow the Republican snake oil.
(an astute analysis... Thanks!)
Mike from Des Moines echoes some previous replies...
I'm not sure that you can make a choice - I think she may be "all of the above".
She certainly is a doofus - she doesn't understand (or pretends not to understand) the "Bush Doctrine" and then whines that Charlie Gibson was trying to "trap" her (how does she like being on the other end of the trap?). She's definitely a wannabe - although wouldn't she be somebody if she finished her elected term as governor of Alaska?
And that brings us to "political threat" - I think a lot of us did not take Dubya seriously because we thought of him as a doofus, and how in the world could he be elected to such a high office? Well, we were taught a lesson. Now let's see what we learned. Eight years of said doofus nearly sunk the Republic, and we can't afford even another year of that crap. I think that because she is entirely the second half of the proposition, that MAKES her the "legitimate political threat." Cluster FOX snews is going to give her a platform 24/7, and unless we can find some way to marginalize them, that along with the successful purge of moderates from the GOP spells trouble for us. We have to take this seriously, I'm afraid. And I'd rather be amused than threatened. But we've got to learn from 2000. (We have, but have the masses?)
SallyP questions the book sales numbers, then answers the poll...
Well, for starters I would like to clarify how Palin got the numbers in her book, 'sales.' In fact, most of her books have been bought up in bulk by Right Wing groups such as, "News Max," a faux news site. As for the sales, they in turn, are offering the book for $5 and throw in a subscription to their publication too boot. I have heard several Right Wing syndicated radio shows offering the book for this low price as well, and some even for free! The latter also implies, that if you don't buy the book you are somehow un-American! So, I don't buy her numbers as pure.
As for your question, I do think this woman is dangerous. Like GWB, she appeals to the ignorant masses across the country - who are so easily duped - and you see what happened the last time America bought the doofus act! Personally, I think Palin is a narcissistic sociopath who craves the limelight at any price, even as low as exploiting her Down Syndrome son. She will lie and cheat to get ahead - and at this she excels. I forecast that we will be dealing with this bitch for some time to come...(no doubt about that!)
Zounds, Poll-fans! A Baker's Dozen replies. Outstanding!
As fer me, I don't think Sarah poses much of a political threat cuz the GOPsters won't let her get far in the primaries. I think 'they' are as aghast at the prospect of her running the country as we are. She'll be relegated to the periphery and 'used' to rally that fringe loony group that supports her as the 'powers that be' sees fit. In return, she'll be promised a job in a repug administration where she can show case herself, yet do no real harm and do what's she's told. Such as Interior Secretary or some such thing... That's how I see it playing out... Oh, and she might want to stay out of small airplanes, too... That could always solve their problem, couldn't it? Oops, as it were....
Thanks to all! Yer the best!
BadToTheBoneBob
New Question
The 'Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?' Edition
The two people without invitations that crashed President Obama's first White House state dinner, Tareq and Michaele Salahi, polo-playing socialites from northern Virginia, are now offering to talk to broadcast networks about it - providing they're well paid. The Virginia couple was looking for a payment in the mid-six figures range - about half a million dollars...
Are you interested enough in what they have to say about their exploit to watch an interview of them?
Meanwhile, two senators, Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) and Jon Kyl (R- Arizona), have called for criminal charges be brought against the couple...
Do you feel that the party crashing couple should be prosecuted?
Send your response to
Recommended Reading
from Bruce
Michael Moore: An Open Letter to President Obama from Michael Moore
Dear President Obama, Do you really want to be the new "war president"?
NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF: Are We Going to Let John Die? (nytimes.com)
If Joe Lieberman or other senators came across John Brodniak writhing in pain on the sidewalk, they presumably would jump to help him and rush him to a hospital. Unfortunately, an emergency room won't help - indeed, the closest E.R. has told him not to come back, he says. So, for those members of Congress who are wavering on health reform, listen to John's story.
Julie Bolcer: Garden State's Gay Guardian (advocate.com)
Meet Loretta Weinberg, the bubbe behind New Jersey's gay rights revolution.
Caryl Rivers: Guys Still Hog Role of Intellectual Heavy Weight (womensenews.org)
Society has warmed up to women in many ways--but not in every way. Caryl Rivers says women are still shut out of the world of ideas. This month's news of all-male authors in Publishers Weekly's list of top 10 books for 2009 is the tip of the iceberg.
Patrick Stewart: the legacy of domestic violence (guardian.co.uk)
The actor recalls a childhood tainted by his father's cruelty.
Steve Lopez: Growing multitudes need a helping hand (latimes.com)
Demand has never been higher at Loaves & Fishes, a Van Nuys food bank that helps about 3,000 families a year. When the doors open at Loaves & Fishes in Van Nuys these days, director Barbara Ausburn sees a big change in the kind of people asking for help.
Froma Harrop: Insane Debate Over Wasted Medical Spending (creators.com)
Doctors would jab sharp instruments into King Henry VIII's arm and drain blood out of his body. The best medical minds of the 16th century prescribed bloodletting as a means to "rebalance the body's humors," the spring equinox being the ideal time. Henry didn't argue with his physicians. After all, Tudor England had the best health care system in the world.
David Sirota: The Zombie Zeitgeist (creators.com)
What's with all the zombies lately? That could be a question about one of the hippest retro fads that pop culture has going these days. Inspired by horror genres of past, zombies have lurched back to pre-eminence in books like "World War Z," video games like "Left 4 Dead" and blockbuster films like "Zombieland."
Hannah Pool: "Question time: Annie Lennox" (guardian.co.uk)
... why she is so angry about HIV/Aids, her criticism of the Pope, and how there'll never be a Eurythmics comeback.
Spinach and Broccoli Music: An Interview with Composer and Drummer John Hollenbeck (popmatters.com)
John Hollenbeck recombines the familiar in compositions that are startlingly new. His new Eternal Interlude is among the best jazz of 2009. Here, he explains his quirky, fresh methods.
Rosanna Greenstreet: "Q&A: Snoop Dogg" (guardian.co.uk)
'I'm Snooperman - I go in tha booth and get it done.'
Tamara Rojo's leap of faith (guardian.co.uk)
She is one of the Royal Ballet's finest dancers. Now Spain wants her back. The outspoken Tamara Rojo tells Judith Mackrell what's stopping her from going.
answered:
From The Creator of 'Avery Ant'
Selected Readings
from that Mad Cat, JD
In The Chaos Household
Last Night
Still sunny and warm.
Engagement Announced
Chelsea Clinton
Turns out those discredited rumors of a possible Chelsea Clinton wedding last summer were mostly just premature: The 29-year old daughter of former President Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has become engaged to her longtime boyfriend, 31-year old investment banker Marc Mezvinsky.
The couple sent an e-mail to friends Friday announcing the news, saying they were looking at a possible wedding next summer. Matt McKenna, a spokesman for the former president, confirmed the engagement Monday.
Mezvinsky is a son of former Pennsylvania Rep. Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky and former Iowa Rep. Ed Mezvinsky, longtime friends of the Clintons. Ed Mezvinsky was released from federal prison last year after serving a nearly five-year sentence for wire and bank fraud.
Margolies-Mezvinsky served just one term in Congress before losing her seat in 1994 after voting in favor of President Clinton's 1993 budget, which was controversial at the time.
Chelsea Clinton
Wins Cervantes Prize
Jose Emilio Pacheco
The Mexican writer Jose Emilio Pacheco has won the Cervantes Prize, the Spanish-speaking world's highest literary honor, Spain's Culture Ministry said Monday.
The 70-year-old poet, novelist, journalist, essayist and literary critic said he was overwhelmed by the award.
Jose Antonio Pascual Rodriguez, a member of the Cervantes Prize jury and representative of the Spanish Royal Academy, said of Pacheco: "We've defined him as representing the whole of our language. He's an exceptional poet of daily life, with a depth, a freedom of thought, an ability to create his own world, an ironic distance from reality when it's necessary, and a linguistic use ... that is impeccable."
Pacheco, a Mexico City native, is widely regarded as one of his country's foremost poets and short narrative writers, and a leading representative of the generation that came of age in the late 1950s and 1960s.
Jose Emilio Pacheco
3-Day Music Fest
Churchill Downs
Churchill Downs, the home of the Kentucky Derby, will host music stars including Bon Jovi and Kenny Chesney during a three-day festival that officials hope can boost the track's income.
Officials said Monday that the festival will feature more than 65 bands playing everything from classic rock to country to bluegrass.
Officials with Churchill Downs Inc., the race track's parent company, says the festival is called "HullabaLOU" and is set for July 23-25. Five stages will be set up throughout the sprawling 147-acre facility. If it's successful, it could become an annual event.
Churchill Downs
Fragmentary Novel Published
Vladimir Nabokov
Vladimir Nabokov's final, fragmentary novel went on sale Monday in two versions in Russia, more than 30 years after he asked that it be burned upon his death.
The emigre Russian wrote "The Original of Laura" on index cards in 1975-77, the last years of his life.
He asked his wife and son to burn the cards after his death, said Tatiana Ponomaryova, director of the Nabokov museum in St. Petersburg, where the versions were presented Monday.
His son Dmitry, who decided to publish the work, wrote in the preface that his father wouldn't have been against the move.
Vladimir Nabokov
Musicals Break Oox-Office Records
Broadway
The Monday after a big holiday week on Broadway usually brings news of broken box-office records.
Thanksgiving week proved no exception, with several eye-popping grosses, particularly for "Wicked" at the Gershwin Theatre. Its producers say the musical prequel to "The Wizard of Oz" took in more than $2 million last week.
Other shows shattering house records were "The Lion King," with $1.69 million at the Minskoff Theatre, and "Billy Elliot," hauling in $1.57 million at the Imperial.
Prices, of course, have risen a bit since last year, and many shows raise them during specific holiday periods.
Broadway
Winner Announced
Bad Sex Award
Jonathan Littell, who won France's prestigious Prix Goncourt in 2006 for "The Kindly Ones," has picked up another prize for the same work -- the Literary Review Bad Sex in Fiction Award.
The annual prize was contested this year by literary heavyweights Philip Roth for "The Humbling," John Banville for "The Infinites" and Paul Theroux for "A Dead Hand."
The award was established by Auberon Waugh in 1993. It is designed to draw attention to the "crude, tasteless, and often perfunctory use of redundant passages of sexual description in contemporary novels, and to discourage it."
Bad Sex Award
Settle Lawsuits
Smashing Pumpkins
An attorney says The Smashing Pumpkins have settled a pair of lawsuits filed against Virgin Records over use of the band's music.
Attorney Josh Glotzer represents band members James Iha and D'arcy Wretzky-Brown and says a confidential settlement with the record label has been reached.
Glotzer represented the former band mates in a lawsuit filed in Los Angeles. He says a separate case against Virgin that involves Smashing Pumpkins frontman Billy Corgan in federal court is also settling.
The lawsuits were filed last year and dealt with use of the popular 1990s alternative band's songs in promotions and royalty payments to Iha and Wretzky-Brown.
Smashing Pumpkins
DUI Charge
Pamela Bach
David Hasselhoff's ex-wife has been arrested on suspicion of drunken driving in Los Angeles.
The California Highway Patrol said Sunday that Pamela Bach was pulled over Saturday night just south of U.S. 101 on Laurel Canyon Boulevard. She was booked at the LAPD's Van Nuys jail and released.
The patrol says Bach showed blood alcohol levels of .14 and .13 on a breathalyzer test. California's legal limit is .08.
Bach was charged with misdemeanor hit-and-run in 2007, but the charges were dropped when she agreed to pay minor damages to the woman whose car she hit. She pleaded no contest to a drunken driving charge in August and was placed on three years of informal probation, court records show.
Pamela Bach
Breaks Power Record
Large Hadron Collider
The world's largest atom smasher broke the world record for proton acceleration Monday, firing particle beams with 20 percent more power than the American lab that previously held the record.
The power of the Large Hadron Collider's proton beams is essential to the project's ultimate goal: smashing particles into each other with enough force to shatter them into the smallest building blocks of matter.
The early-morning test continues a recent sequence of successes that have elated scientists who were disappointed by the $10 billion machine's collapse last year during its opening in a 17-mile (27-kilometer) tunnel under the Swiss-French border. The breakdown required extensive repairs and improvements.
The collider fired two particle beams at 1.18 trillion electron volts early Monday, surpassing the previous high of 0.98 1 TeV held by the Chicago-area Fermilab since 2001, according to the European Organization for Nuclear Research.
Large Hadron Collider
3 Boys Detained
'Ginger Day'
Three boys were booked on suspicion of bullying or kicking red-haired students at a middle school when a "Kick a Ginger Day" prank inspired by a "South Park" episode got out of hand, authorities said Monday.
A 13-year-old boy was detained last week for investigation of threatening to inflict injury by means of electronic communication - essentially, cyberbullying. Two 12-year-olds were booked for battery on school property, Los Angeles County sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore said.
Four girls and three boys reported that schoolmates shoved or kicked them on Nov. 20 at A.E. Wright Middle School in Calabasas, an affluent suburb of Los Angeles.
Investigators said the attacks apparently were inspired by a 2005 episode of "South Park" that parodied racial prejudice by having the character Cartman incite a hate campaign against freckled, red-haired "ginger kids."
'Ginger Day'
Boston Brewer Pushes Limits
Samuel Adams
It is banned in 13 states and sure doesn't come in a six-pack.
The maker of Samuel Adams beer has released an updated version of its biennial beer Utopias - now the highest alcohol content beer on the market. At 27 percent alcohol by volume and $150 a bottle, the limited release of the brandy-colored Utopias comes as more brewers take advantage of improvements in science to boost potency and enhance taste.
"Just part of trying to push the envelope," said Jim Koch, founder and owner of the Boston Beer Co. the maker of Sam Adams. "I'm pushing it beyond what the laws of these 13 states ever contemplated when they passed those laws decades ago."
By law, these specialty drinks still are classified as beer when they are based on fermented grain. And despite the hefty prices of the high-scale beer, brewers still have to pay the required nickel deposit on bottles.
Samuel Adams
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