The Weekly Poll
Results
The 'Trials vs Tribunals' Edition
John Dickerson hosted a roundtable discussion of Eric Holder's decision to prosecute 5 Guantanamo Bay detainees in New York with Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton with National Security Network and Hamilton Peterson with Keep America Safe.
Unplugged: Pros and Cons Of 9/11 Trials In New York - CBS News Video
Do you support or oppose the Administration's decision to try the accused terrorism perpetrators in New York City?
rox.a was first with...
It's going to be a media circus and a kangaroo court. Why not have it here? Should be fun!
bebo said...
whether the trial is held in new york city or rantoul, kansas, as long as it is televised.
maw affirmatively wrote...
I support this. The talking heads of the Repug party trashing the judicial system of the US and using threat of future attacks scare tactics is typical of the party bound and determined to deny rights to all. Says a lot for how secure "Shrub" made the US after 9/11 doesn't it?
Mark the Boilermaker wants a different trial and venue...
Bush and Cheney should be tried at the Hague.
DRD opines...
This question, and it's implications of possible unforeseen complications, has sparked reaction pro/con unlike most other issues of the day! As to the fears that the defendants might be acquitted, thereby released to their own devices is certainly unwarranted from a political point of view. What makes anyone believe that elected officials would hang their future public office life on the public's approval of releasing the captives to wander freely along side of us? As already pointed out by officials, guilty or not, they are going to remain guest of Uncle Sam for an unspecified length of time! Solely due to this complication, my question is: "Why have a trial?" How is telling the world that we are going to punish these people regardless of the facts of the deliberation be of any gain to us as individuals or as a nation? Revenge, warmed over, is greasy to the palate and upsetting to the stomach! Considering the many years some of these men have already been incarcerated, what if found guilty and they are given credit for time already served, which is common practice in our legal system of today, and they are ordered released by the courts? Due to the implications of possible torture by our government, releasing these men is not as far fetched as it may seem! Can anyone not foresee the civic disruption such an outcome might present to public safety?
As most honest-hearted would agree,the question of these ''unlawful-combatants'' was a comedy of errors beginning with the first ones rounded up, and not much of anything has changed to do away with the comedy since!
Richard McD. sent two responses...
Support 100% No more of the be very afraid bullshit,that the right has been selling for the past 8 years.
and then later sent
Repugs brown their knickers in fear and you should too!
This seems to be one of those issues where we find the Party of Tea being against something only because President Obama is for it.
Rudy Giuliani makes it clear in this Daily Show video that in 2006 he was all for trying terrorists in New York City, gracefully speaking up for our country, our effective legal system and it being the ethical, moral and right thing to do. Three years later a full 180 that trying terrorists within our failed legal system is beyond abhorrent. What happened?
Project Obama Fail is what happened. It would seem conservatives would want a public, transparent trial at the very spot it happened. To get their bloody hands on them and to personally have a say in their coming executions. It's so very conservative to allow New Yorkers to have at em.
Well of course the Repugs want to execute them! They just want to do it in secret, like they want to kill everybody who sees through their shit but can't due to some quaint ol' goddamn piece of paper 'rule of law' thing, what was it? Oh, yeah - The Constitution. What they're really afraid of is that the whole Bush/Cheney/Yoo/Addington/rendition/CIA "black sites' (like this one in Lithuania) might come out just in time for the 2010 elections. What we have here is the Republican party playing the only working card they have in the deck. SCARE YOUR PANTS OFF! Whether it be Iraqis, Iranians, Muslims, the Taliban, Chinamen, death panels, socialism, debt (other than war debt) and perhaps above all those Uppity Negroes in the White House. Fear is all they have any more. AND IT WORKS! Toughen up America!
The Repugs'll shit themselves in publicly suppressed joy if their fearmongering shoves some nutter off the edge and he offs Obama. They just love shittin' themselves if it hurts people and advances their retard agenda.
Adam in NoHo is for it...
There is no reason not to try 'terrorists' in open, civilian court. First off, even the military doesn't trust their own trumped-up tribunal process. Second, I demand to see (as should the rest of the world) the evidence, the arguments, and everything else connected the capture, arrest, treatment, and trial of these suspects.
If Holder wins convictions, it will make other countries trust us more (even though we still render, torture, and randomly accuse). If Holder loses, he better blame the Bush people for their incompetence and mendacity and bring THEM up on charges for failing to enforce prisoner security.
Anyone who says NYC can't handle the trial is a pussy for insulting the good citizens of NYC. Jeff Sessions needs to go back home and piss his pants in private. Doing it in public is embarrassing for us both.
SallyP wrote...
I reply, absolutely yes. 9/11 was a crime perpetrated against civilians in NYC, and NOT the military. Does it not make sense that the trial should be in NYC and by a Federal Court? As for the crash at the Pentagon, I say retry them in DC after NYC, where most of the death's occurred! The fact is, those who protest the non-military tribunal, do not really want ANY trial at all, they are all for, "Lining 'em up in front of a firing squad and let'n 'em have it!" Oh, yes, and I might note that they are in fact the same people who scream "US Constitution rules, to all their like-minded haters."
Then sent this addendum...
I am also MOST interested in hearing from the defendants (in the 9/11 case) and to hear what they have to say. This does not mean that I excuse their crime(s) in any way, or want them to be found not guilty. What I do want is for this to also be an indictment against Bush/Cheney, and want to know all about the defendants treatment in GITMO, and the evidence of the impending attacks with regard to what Bush/Cheney knew or overlooked.
Charlie Y. makes some interesting points with...
Ideally, having open jury trials, whether in NYC or elsewhere, would provide a public airing to all the issues surrounding these cases, but I doubt that the government is going to freely provide evidence which would compromise its case. In a fair trial, a number of things should be considered here:
Evidence was obtained under torture.
The defendants have been denied the right to a speedy trial.
The defendants have been denied the right to confront their accusers.
And some other things, such as
The defendants seem to have been presumed guilty, by Obama no less:
In one of a series of TV interviews during his trip to Asia, Obama said those offended by the legal privileges given to Mohammed by virtue of getting a civilian trial rather than a military tribunal won't find it "offensive at all when he's convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him."
Which would also seem to raise a few objections among opponents of the death penalty, e.g. moi.
The only fair way to try these suspects and the rest of the Guantanamo detainees would be in an international court, otherwise these things are going to resemble Stalinist show trials. Obama has already claimed the right to keep the defendants in detention even if they are acquitted ("post-acquittal detention powers." If that's not Orwellian, I don't know what is).
Of course, there is also the problem that the likes of Bush and Cheney are still on the loose, though the public evidence that they were responsible for many more deaths than occurred due to 9/11 is more than overwhelming.
Well, then, Poll-fans, there it is... A great turnout with many thought provoking points of view. As fer myself, I'm conflicted. Part of me wants to say, "What's the point? Obama and Holder have all but assured us that the defendants will be found guilty." That makes me think of despotic show trials... Then there's wanting to get to the bottom of this miasma and bring to light that which needs to be known... good, bad and ugly..
I'm not afraid of the security concerns, nor the grandstanding of the accused... What I am afraid of is that it will turn into a prolonged, agonizing, 'can of worms' that will make us look worse than we already do... If that's even possible... So, as I always say, Hope fer the best, Expect the worst... Thanks to all...
Yer the Best!
BadToTheBoneBob
New Question
The "Shady in Red' Edition...
Publisher Harper Collins said Friday that Sarah Palin's memoir sold 300,000 copies its first day, among the best openings ever for a nonfiction book. Its print run already has been increased from 1.5 million copies to 2.5 million... In 2004, Bill Clinton's "My Life" debuted with sales of 400,000 copies. The year before, Hillary Rodham Clinton's "Living History" started at 200,000... The Wingnuts are going bonkers!
Do you consider Sarah Palin a legitimate political threat or merely a ditzy cultural doofus and a rabble-rousing, egotistical, power-broker wannabe?
Send your response to
Michael Dare
Stephen Colbert
Recommended Reading
from Bruce
Paul Krugman: The Phantom Menace (nytimes.com)
The scare stories from Wall Street seem to be intimidating Washington from doing more to rescue the economy.
Froma Harrop: The Party of Fiscal Babies (creators.com)
Nearly every Republican these days calls for tax cuts and lower deficits, and in the same sentence. Point out that these goals clash - that taxes pay for government and not paying for government causes deficits, and the Republican counters, "We must shrink government, instead."
Susan Estrich: What's a Woman To Do About Mammography? (creators.com)
So, as it turns out, did I not need to have my breasts squeezed in the mammogram machines every year between the ages of 40 and 50? Could I have missed the two scares in there, especially the one when both of my kids were babies?
Jim Windolf: Addicted to Cute (Vanity Fair)
"America has been flooded by a tsunami of cute-we're drowning in puppies and kittens and bunnies and cupcakes-that is transforming marketing (the geico Gecko), automobiles (the Smart car), and movies (Up). But is the world bound to sour on all this sweetness?"
Bruce Vilanch: Let Lily Tomlin Entertain You (advocate.com)
The iconic entertainer, at 70, shows no signs of slowing down. Tomlin opens up about her extraordinary career and why she never felt the need for a coming-out party.
Michael Jensen: Nine Questions With Comedian Billy Eichner (afterelton.com)
The stand-up comic struts his stuff.
"The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science" by Richard Holmes: A review by Benjamin Moser
Richard Holmes's monumental 'The Age of Wonder: How the Romantic Generation Discovered the Beauty and Terror of Science' (Pantheon, $40) opens in 1769, when the dashing young millionaire Joseph Banks alighted on Tahiti, a paradisiacal isle that was to host Captain James Cook's observations of the transit of Venus -- though, as the crewmen discovered, the island's other charms lent the name of their temporary establishment, Fort Venus, more suggestive shades.
James Lileks: Self-proclaimed 'lazy' author Stephen King releases his 51st novel (Star Tribune)
"You know, I'm a lazy son of a gun."
Paula Fox: Light on the Dark Side (nybooks.com)
I remember L.J. Davis as an energetic, voluble man whose interests (and writing) were not at all confined to the literary. He knew a lot about all sorts of things, one of which was finance. His impersonal way of greeting you was to announce without preliminary some remarkable, usually grotesque piece of local news or information.
George Varga: Timing Fortuitous for Dirty Projectors' Coffman (creators.com)
Being in the right place at the right time is pivotal for a young musician seeking to grow creatively. So is leaving.
Mikhaela Reid: Cartoon
David Bruce: "Homer's 'Iliad': A Discussion Guide" (lulu.com)
Free download. This book is a question-and-answer guide to Homer's "Iliad," the great epic poem about the Trojan War. This book provides background information and an interpretation of the poem and is meant to be a guide for new readers and new teachers of the "Iliad."
Go Betty Go: Saturday (youtube.com)
answered:
From The Creator of 'Avery Ant'
PURPLE GENE REVIEWS
'TEA PARTY: THE DOCUMENTARY'
:
THE DIRECT TO DVD HOLIDAY CLASSIC.....A MUST MISS FILM
"TEA PARTY: THE DOCUMENTARY" TEA BAGGERS GONE WILD PAID FOR BY RIGHT WING CORPORATE LOONS...WATCH THIS TRAILER...THIS IS NOT A SPOOF!
Selected Readings
from that Mad Cat, JD
In The Chaos Household
Last Night
Sunny and warm.
The washing machine took a dive. Argh.
Headlining Glastonbury Festival
U2
Irish rock band U2 are to headline next year's Glastonbury Festival on the 40th anniversary of the world's biggest green field arts and music event.
Glastonbury organizer Michael Eavis said he had been trying for years to persuade the group to perform and was delighted they had agreed to play their first festival since the 1980s.
The three-day festival, which takes place on Eavis's farm in southwest England and attracts some 150,000 revelers, has already sold out.
What started as a hippy haven in 1970 and became famed for fans partying in mud because heavy rain often turned the site into a quagmire, has now become a highlight of Britain's musical calendar.
U2
Book Up For Auction
Alice Liddell
A copy of the book "Through the Looking Glass, and What Alice Found There" that belonged to the British girl who inspired author Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland" will be sold at an auction next month, the company behind the sale said on Monday.
At its December 16 auction, Profiles in History also will sell a copy of "The Tale of Peter Rabbit" that belonged to its author, Beatrix Potter. The items come from the collection of former U.S. professional football player Pat McInally, the auctioneer said.
"Through the Looking Glass, and What Alice Found There," which belonged to the late Alice Liddell before it came into McInally's collection, has an estimated sales price of $150,000.
Potter's copy of "The Tale of Peter Rabbit" is expected to sell for up to $120,000, Profiles in History said.
Alice Liddell
Hospital News
Regis Philbin
Regis Philbin will be taking a leave of absence from his long-running ABC daytime talk show to undergo a hip replacement surgery.
Philbin, 78, made the announcement Monday on "Live with Regis and Kelly," which is broadcasting from Las Vegas this week.
"I've been limping around here; it really is painful," Regis said at the end of the show's opening segment. His surgery is scheduled for December 1, after the show's crew returns to New York.
Regis Philbin
Renewed For Fifth Season
"Psych"
"Psych" will be sleuthing for another year.
USA Network has renewed the crime comedy for a fifth season with a 16-episode order. "Psych," starring James Roday as a fake psychic with great observational skills and Dule Hill as his best friend and partner in their police consulting business, was a breakout hit for the network when it launched in July 2006 as the highest-rated USA series debut.
"Psych" will face a challenge in January when the second half of its fourth season will run for the first time without its formidable lead-in, "Monk," which is wrapping its eight-season run in December. USA is still finalizing its scheduling plans for January, but "Psych" is rumored to return with original episodes January 29 and remain in its Friday 10 p.m. slot.
The show's fifth season is expected to premiere in summer 2010. The cast also includes Corbin Bernsen, Timothy Omundson and Maggie Lawson.
"Psych"
Hospital News
Little Richard
Little Richard is asking fans to pray for his speedy recovery after undergoing hip surgery at a Tennessee hospital.
The Rev. Bill Minson, a family friend, says the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer had been in some pain leading up to the surgery but continued to maintain a rigorous performing schedule.
Minson says the 76-year-old asked him to tell fans "to get ready to rock 'n' roll with him in the new year because he's coming back strong."
The Macon, Ga., native now lives in Tennessee. He is recovering at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville.
Little Richard
Chief Guilty On 3 Counts
Parker-Broderick
An eastern Ohio police chief was acquitted of burglary charges Monday but convicted of three other felonies in an alleged break-in at the home of a woman who carried twins for Sarah Jessica Parker and Matthew Broderick.
A jury found suspended Martins Ferry Chief Barry Carpenter guilty of receiving stolen property, theft in office and tampering with evidence. He was acquitted on charges of burglary and unauthorized used of property or services.
Carpenter put his head in his hands after the verdict was read in Belmont County court. Messages seeking comment were left for his attorney and for prosecutors who tried the case.
Carpenter faces a maximum 10 years in jail when sentenced Dec. 10. Until then, he must stay in his mother's home and will be monitored by a GPS device.
Parker-Broderick
Memorial Costs
Michael Jackson
A Los Angeles official says she's negotiating with the company that owns Staples Center about reimbursing at least some of the $3.2 million taxpayers spent on the Michael Jackson memorial.
A City Council panel postponed Monday's cost review for a week after Councilwoman Jan Perry said she had positive discussions with AEG about the memorial at Staples in July.
A recent city report concluded the memorial boosted the local economy and determined there was no law in place at the time to force reimbursement.
City Attorney Carmen Trutanich (R - Hot Dog) has aggressively pursued repayment, prompting AEG's president to accuse him of bully tactics.
Michael Jackson
Ex-Prosecutor Pleads Not Guilty
Paul Bergrin
A former federal prosecutor and prominent New Jersey defense attorney whose past clients have included Queen Latifah and Lil' Kim has pleaded not guilty to bribery, drug and prostitution charges.
Paul Bergrin of Morganville appeared Monday in U.S. District Court in Newark. He's been held since his arrest in May for allegedly arranging the murder of one witness and trying to set up the murder of another.
The government could pursue the death penalty against Bergrin for the murder counts.
Federal prosecutors say Bergrin used threats, bribes and even murder to discourage witnesses from testifying. They allege that Bergrin passed the name of an informant to associates of a client in a drug case. The informant was shot to death in Newark in 2004.
Paul Bergrin
Creep Pleads Innocent
Erin Andrews
A Chicago insurance man pleaded not guilty on Monday to charges that he peeped into television sports reporter Erin Andrews' hotel room when she was nude, took video of her and tried to sell the footage.
Michael David Barrett, who is free on $100,000 bond and was charged in federal court in Los Angeles, faces up to five years in federal prison if convicted.
He is accused of secretly shooting videos of Andrews through peepholes at hotels in Nashville, Tennessee, Columbus, Ohio, and Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and posting the footage on the Web after trying to sell it to celebrity site TMZ.com .
Investigators say that at a hotel where Andrews stayed last year, the peephole in the door was altered and that Barrett specifically requested and stayed in the room next to Andrews.
Erin Andrews
'Cathouse' Murder
OK City
A former Marine has been arraigned on six counts of first-degree murder for the deaths of four people whose bodies were found in a burning home, including a prostitute featured on the HBO reality series "Cathouse."
David Tyner appeared Monday morning by video before Oklahoma County Special Judge Russell Hall, who denied bail.
Prosecutors charged Tyner on Friday in the Nov. 9 deaths of Mark Barrientos, Jennifer Ermey, Milagrous Barrera and Brooke Phillips, whose bodies were found by firefighters responding to a house fire call.
Tyner is accused of stabbing, shooting and setting fire to the four. Investigators say they believe he didn't act alone.
OK City
Drifting To New Zealand
Over 100 Icebergs
More than 100, and possibly hundreds, of Antarctic icebergs are floating towards New Zealand in a rare event which has prompted a shipping warning, officials said on Monday.
An Australian Antarctic Division glaciologist said the ice chunks, spotted by satellite photography, had passed the Auckland Islands and were heading towards the main South Island, about 450 kilometres (280 miles) northeast.
Scientist Neal Young said more than 100 icebergs -- some measuring more than 200 metres (650 feet) across -- were seen in just one cluster, indicating there could be hundreds more.
He said they were the remains of a massive ice floe which split from the Antarctic as sea and air temperatures rise due to global warming.
Over 100 Icebergs
Rolling Stone Italy Names 2009 Rock Star
Berlusconi
The Italian edition of Rolling Stone has named Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi its "rock star of the year," paying tribute to his "lifestyle worthy of the greatest rock star."
An illustration of a smiling Berlusconi, who weathered a summer of scandals over his relations with an 18-year-old underwear model and allegations he slept with a prostitute after a party, emblazons the cover of the Rolling Stone's December issue, against the backdrop of the Italian flag.
Carlo Antonelli, editor of Rolling Stone Italy, said the 73-year-old media mogul had been chosen unanimously by the magazine's editorial staff.
"This year the choice was unanimous, for his obvious merits due to a lifestyle for which the words 'rock and roll' fall short," Antonelli said in a statement.
Berlusconi
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